I have no idea what is the difference between the SE model and the non SE model. Also was looking for fairings for a 2016 and every website had them up until 2015. was there a big fairing change in 2016 or anything else different from 2012-2015?

SE = Special Etching on the paint job ~ $400 extra on the retail price.
Parts vs. Parts = No change.
Performance vs. Performance = No change.
Subtle changes between years = Minimum.

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After closer look I think SE comes with brembo and steel braided brake lines

Still with a nissan master looks like. Once you pull a brembo master lever, there's no going back.

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The '16 SE comes with Brembo master, calipers, and rotors. Braided steel lines as well. The ECU, header pipe, and a few other items are different.

The plastics all fit the same as the '12-up.

* Last updated by: TRAILBOSS on 2/20/2017 @ 10:51 PM *

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With TRAILBOSS here...All Brembo up front with braided lines.
Plus the clutch line is too.

Little known secret: the SE has +10 HP above 9000 RPM..

SHHH!!

* Last updated by: motoman97034 on 3/3/2017 @ 2:53 PM *

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Service has Brembo brake master, but Nissin clutch master. Also has two display modes to improve visibility...

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Little known secret: the SE has +10 HP above 9000 RPM...

Did not know that. If BOSS says there's a different ECU, I can see 10hp. I'm sure the brochure says something about it rather than hide it. Unless each SE pumps out the same +10 over a generic OE of the same year, show me the money.

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Did not know that. If BOSS says there's a different ECU, I can see 10hp. I'm sure the brochure says something about it rather than hide it. Unless each SE pumps out the same +10 over a generic OE of the same year, show me the money.

I'm pretty sure he's joking. In fact, without a full system, the extra catalytic converter in the header actually decreases the output of the motor by about 10hp. Slip-ons and a tune won't help it as much as they did with the '12-'15. Not that these bikes really need any help... but when you're paying the big bucks to chase down every last pony it can start to matter.

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1) SE's main upgrade is the Brembo's, Blacked out master cylinders and paint..

2) 2016 down a little on power mostly due to euro4 emissions. Most dyno in the 185 range compared with the 12-15's which typically dyno 190-195..

3) modification are limited at this time. Dynojet is slow to produce a Pc5 or equivalent for tuning. However with a ECM flash and recalibration of the afr's from a reputable company such as Guhl, and a good aftermarket full exhaust the dyno numbers pretty much match up with the results from the moded 12-15 models..

Hope this helps...

Well, it started to net up and I had a mem fade and forgot about the brake upgrade. My list above remains the same.

Research:
2017 and '016 are interchangeable from part to part, sans the paint job. No power change between years if ECU's have the same cali and 48 state part number.
2015 and '014 are interchangeable between years including ECU; sans the paint. Show me the HP change.

2) 2016 down a little on power mostly due to euro4 emissions.

Might be those intake boots acting as restrictor plates. We pretty much match emissions even though we are open loop. Stoic is 14.7. Closed loop is targeted to 14.7. Some sensors are handcuffed [fixed] to 14.7 so it can tell when the atmo pressure changes on either side of 760mmHg [14.7] Turn PAIR off the AFR shows how rich it does run.

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The SE here down under has an Oehlins suspension and Brembo brakes for about 2.ooo AUD more.

The emissions difference between 12-15 and 16+ is in the header pipe. There is an additional catalytic converter that chokes it down a bit. The ECUs, while different, make the same power once a full system and flash tune are in place. It's actually using the same ECU as the '16 10R.

Aside from that, the only performance differences are in the Brembo master/calipers/rotors and braided steel lines.

* Last updated by: TRAILBOSS on 3/10/2017 @ 5:46 PM *

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Thanks Morko. More trivia for an SE are the upgraded shocks, brakes, and whatever being the same. What else is there?

The emissions difference between 12-15 and 16+ is in the header pipe. There is an additional catalytic converter that chokes it down a bit. The ECUs, while different, make the same power once a full system and flash tune are in place. It's actually using the same ECU as the '16 10R.

Technically, more hp comes out of the powerplant with tighter emissions. Emissions meaning, heavy rich start where they cut the fat/startup say a 10 second drop from last emissions. In other words, the emissions is more for rich starts and cutting the fat off sooner. That was more the car industry changes to meet emissions. Whatever cat is in the pipe, the honeycomb openings are not that restrictive when the factory expands the headers to compensate. And I'll have to disagree between a high revving 1000 and those fuel points vs. a longer stroke 14 with different fuel curves, plus, no part number matches ECU for ECU; so even the injectors may be a game changer at one point to solve, as was me changing year ECU's vs. I needed to change the injectors for that ECU as well. All other telemetry remains the same with the same [basic] sensor inputs.

Make sense?

Signed,
NOLTT (net overload twisting truths)

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You're right, Hub. Im sure the catalytic converter, which adds restriction to an otherwise unrestricted pipe, has nothing to do with it. The degree of the restriction may be minor, but in the game of chasing individual horsepower every single variable matters. And no, the part numbers are likely dissimilar. I'm sure that with your extensive tuning experience you know that the new ECU is of the same design as that of the 10R, and not that of the '12-'15 14R. That doesn't mean the same data is installed in each ECU... it means the design of how that data is accessed is different, thus the necessity for new tune files that are not compatible with the previous ECUs.

And I'm getting my information from the dyno tuner that is generating positive results as he circumnavigates the various changes of the '16 model year. Literal, hands-on experience. Plus, you know, I've actually owned and worked on a '13 and '16 SE. I have both complete OEM systems in my garage to inspect. I can tell you, and substantiate with dyno graphs, that the ECU alone does not tune out the power loss created by the catalytic converter. The installation of a new header is vital in eliminating the power loss created by the new OEM exhaust system.

I'm no tuning professional. But my information comes from one of the best in the industry. What are your credentials? What's your actual experience? Not rhetorical or tangential connections to other industries or machines... your real conclusions drawn from working with these machines.

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Stand by guys, history shows this could get entertaining.

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Meh. I've said what I need to say. Hub can say whatever he wants, but he has yet to provide any valid info that refutes the claims I make. Im confident in the sources that I use to come to my conclusions. Anyone who wants to gobble up his "Hubbish" without verifying its veracity, more power to them.

I'm not going to get sucked into his trolling.

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The ECUs, while different, make the same power once a full system and flash tune are in place.

on the 'stand by' is that I stand by what looks like OEM goes checkmate each time you bring in the abstract. "make the same power"? Now your "while different," says there are different injector part numbers. "once a full system and flash tune are in place"? What happened to the 441cc difference in power? That's like a motox engine having almost 450cc's and you are saying you detuned the 14 to match a 1000cc?

but he has yet to provide any valid info that refutes the claims I make.

I believe you pointed out different ECU's and that's when I researched to see they are the same. Then, you edited what started this and have provided invalid info on that point alone. Thanks for cleaning that up, btw.

Im confident in the sources that I use to come to my conclusions.

My source is an OEM parts page.

I'm no tuning professional. But my information comes from one of the best in the industry.

Same here. I'm a tuneup guy not a tuner. I'm a parts changer, a nut and bolt guy. A lot of meguyveering and not an engineer. Anything above that and I peter principal'ed myself.

What are your credentials? What's your actual experience? Not rhetorical or tangential connections to other industries or machines... your real conclusions drawn from working with these machines

Like I said, that's all I know. I have very little experience actually. It's always a learning curve and you never get there. I'll bet who you know [I know] it's a small world in the bike scene. So when I sort of figured out the bike and could see some of the basic mechanics to the ECU, my tuner said if it wouldn't make it go faster he was not interested. So to tune it, no way. But to see it work like the book's abstract, that's tuneup.

I'm not going to get sucked into his trolling.

What trolling? It was just a trivia question. I have no gripe with you, BOSS.
"Stand by guys, history shows this could get entertaining." It was always about the entertainment.

Brochure says the 1000cc is the world's fastest production bike, the flagship 14 is out to pasture...
Exit stage left. Oh hi, Kofla (I think I turned too left).

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One would HOPE that a motorcycle ECU would be able to continually upgrade and take advantage of advances in microchip technology the same way that cell phones, tablets, cameras, and even HDTV's do.

One would HOPE that a new ECU would be bigger, faster, and even cheaper. Therefore able to execute more instructions faster, perhaps monitor and react and adjust to real-time engine data quicker, help the bike to run more efficiently and be more responsive.

One would HOPE that a new ECU was not installed just to meet emissions requirements, but rather as a starting point for a new path forward towards more features such as digital gauges, and IMU electronics.

I would think we are almost at the point where Motorcycles will contain multiple ECU's, placed at different points on the bike to control different functions such as braking, adaptive suspension, temp control, ignition timing, and user controls. Not just fuel management. These multiple ECU's would communicate with the Master ECU which would serve as a Traffic Director and also monitor that the entire System was functioning properly. And also provide redundancy in case of component failure.

Gentlemen, we are certainly approaching the age of Electric Motorcycles. Either all or partial/hybrid. As we have seen, an electric motor can get you off the line faster than any other current powertrain on the Planet.

Brace yourselves.

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Hope is not a strategy (wonder who is attributed with that old saying?)

Anyway, making more $$$$ is the strategic goal. Therefore, same ECU for as long as possible - changes cost $$. 5 yrs with the only changes on the 14R driven by EU emission requirements and I think the processor is the same just new code in order to comply to sell more bikes and make $$$

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Well, that is true Rudy, but I have seen ECU's go from 8 bit to 16 bit to 32 bit. From static to flashable EPROM. From HUGE to candy bar size. From wired to CANBUS.

So even if an ECU can help with emissions, it can certainly also help with performance at the same time.

We have also seen accessory processors overcome poorly performing ECU's. Unfortunately, looks like these companies were persecuted for it.

Perhaps the answer lies in a complete aftermarket ECU replacement. Such as those available for cars.

* Last updated by: motoman97034 on 3/14/2017 @ 2:29 PM *

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SE is the Sexy Edition

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One would HOPE that a new ECU would be bigger, faster, and even cheaper.

Everything but growing weight on the bike is to shrink the black box and someone theorized that every 18 months something comes up in the evolution of smaller/faster is each part down to the black box it's baked into.

Therefore able to execute more instructions faster, perhaps monitor and react and adjust to real-time engine data quicker, help the bike to run more efficiently and be more responsive.

The telemetry is already there, it's the speed of the air event that's lagging. If the black box has no moving parts and it's just E flowing, then add the percentage of drag (resistance) divided by the speed of light, times 4 strokes and E is waiting to trigger the spark at set degree, are we on the same page yet?

... a new ECU was not installed just to meet emissions requirements, but rather as a starting point for a new path forward towards more features such as digital gauges, and IMU electronics.

I can run a list of 14.7 movements vs. emissions, vs. nature. The concept being, watt happens if the 02 sensor or an ATMO sensor fails on a computer bike? The default is calc'd @ 14.7/760mmHg/101.3/0 = Atmosphere so the bike still runs in formula vs nature's pressure. Yammie R1 already has 6-axis telemetry to mimic IMU.

I would think we are almost at the point where Motorcycles will contain multiple ECU's. And also provide redundancy in case of component failure.

We are at that point. I count the ECU, the piggy over the ECU, the ABS black box = 3. The ECU holds the redundancy [backup = kawi term] for that exact redundancy = 14.7... same page here. We flipflopping yet?

Finger Flip Pulse Train.
1. Thumb to thumb = Full Power. (flip locked ~ 0)
2. Pinkie to pinkie = Backup (redundant) (flop locked ~ 1)
3. L-Thumb to R-Pinkie = ABS intervention (flipflops = no lock)
4. R-Thumb to L-Pinkie = K/skid intervention (flipflops = triggers like a machine gun locks/unlocks till tone wheels match).
(4 moves = N-E-S-W in an X to Y move(s) = Binary (1001 is one combo of 4) Make sense so somewhat bewildering?

an electric motor can get you off the line faster than any other current powertrain on the Planet.
Brace yourselves.

You can bet that if mother tea builds an E-bike, cash waiting for the world's fastest E-ticket Ride.

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